精华 学习历史:黑暗的中世纪?

本帖由 qwerty02012-11-11 发布。版面名称:基督教会

  1. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    Sentence (22 June 1633)

    By the grace of God, Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and especially commissioned by the Holy Apostolic See as Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity in all of Christendom.

    Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were denounced to this Holy Office in 1615 for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth moves even with diurnal motion; for having disciples to whom you taught the same doctrine; for being in correspondence with some German mathematicians about it; for having published some letters entitiled On Sunspots, in which you explained the same doctrine as true; for interpreting Holy Scripture according to your own meaning in response to objections based on Scripture which were sometimes made to you; and whereas later we received a copy of an essay in the form of a letter, which was said to have been written by you to a former disciple of yours and which in accordance with Copernicus's position contains various propositions against the authority and true meaning of Holy Scripture;

    And whereas this Holy Tribunal wanted remedy the disorder and the harm which derived from it and which was growing to the detriment of the Holy Faith, by order of His Holiness and the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Lord Cardinals of this Supreme and Univesal Inquisition, the Assessor Theologians assessed the two propositions of the sun's stability and the earth's motions as follows:

    That the sun is the center of the world and motionless is a proposition which is philosophically absurd and false, and formally heretical, for being explicitly contrary to Holy Scripture;

    That the earth is neither the center of the world nor motionless but moves even with diurnal motion is philosophically equally absurd and false, and theologically at least erroneous in the Faith.

    Whereas however we wanted to treat you with benignity at that time, it was decided at the Holy Congregation held in the presence of His Holiness on 25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this, the Commissary of the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be imprisoned. To execute this decision, the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the above-mentioned Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, after beine informed and warned in a friendly way by the same Lord Cardinal, you were given an injunction by the then Father Commissary of the Holy Office in the presence of a notary and witnesses to the effect that you must completely abandon the said false opinion, and that in the future you could neither hold, nor defend, nor teach it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing; having promised to obey, you were dismissed.

    Furthermore, in order to completely eliminate such a pernicious doctrine, and not let it creep any further to the great detriment of Catholic truth, the Holy Congregation of the Index issued a decree which prohibited books treating of sucy a doctrine and declared it false and wholly contrary to the divine and Holy Scripture.

    And whereas a book has appeared here lately, printed in Florence last year, whose inscription showed that you were the author, the title being Dialogue by Galileo Galilei on the two Chief World Systems, Ptolemaic and Copernican; and whereas the Holy Congregation was informed that with the printing of this book the false opinion of the earth's motion and the sun's stability was being disseminated and taking hold more and more every day, the said book was diligently examined and found to violate explicitly the above-mentioned injunction given to you; for in the same book you have defended the said opinion already condemned and so declared to your face, although in the said book you try by means of various subterfuges to give the impression of leaving it undecided and labeled as probable; this is still a very serious error since there is no way an opinion declared and defined contrary to divine Scripture may be probable.

    Therefore, by our order you were summoned to this Holy Office, where, examined under oath, you acknowledged the book as written and published by you. You confessed that about ten or twelve years ago after having been given the injunction mentioned above, you began writing the said book, and that then you asked for permission to print it without explaining to those who gave you such permission that you were under the injunction of not holding, defending, or teaching such a doctrine in any way whatever.

    Likewise, you confessed that in several places the exposition of the said book is expressed in such a way that a reader could get the idea that the arguments given for the false side were effective enough to be capable of convincing, rather than being easy to refute. Your excuses for having committted an error, as you said so foreign from you intention, were that you had written in dialogue form, and everyone feels a natural satisfaction for one's own subtleties and showing oneself sharper than the average man by finding ingenious and apparently probable arguments even in favor of false propositions.

    Having been given suitable terms to present your defense, you produced a certificate in the handwriting of the most Eminient Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, which you said you obtained to defend yourself from the calumnies of your enemies, who were claiming that you had abjured and had been punished by the Holy Office. This certificate says that you had neither abjured nor been punished, but only that you had been notified of the declaration made by His Holiness and published by the Holy Congregation of the Index, whose content is that the doctrine of the earth's motion and sun's stability is conterary to Holy Scripture and so can be neither defended nor held. Because this certificate does not contain the two phrases of the injunction, namely "to teach" and "in any way whatever," one is supposed to believe that in the course of fourteen or sixteen years you had lost any recollection of them, and that for this same reason you had been silent about the injunction when you applied for the license to publish the book. Furthermore, one is supposed to believe that you point out all of this not to excuse the error, but in order to have it attributed to conceited ambition rather than to malice. However, the said certificate you produced in your defense aggravates your case further since, while it says that the said opinion is contrary to Holy Scripture, yet you dared to treat of it, defend it, and show it as probable; nor are you helped by the license your artfully and cunningly extorted since you did not mention the injunction you were under.

    Because we did not think you had said the whole truth about your intention, we deemed it necessary to proceed against you by a rigorous examination. Here you answered in a Catholic manner, though without prejudice to the above-mentioned matters confessed by you and deduced against you about your intention.

    Therefore, having seen and seriously considered the merits of your case, together with the above-mentioned confessions and excuses and with any other reasonable matter worth seeing and considering, we have come to the final sentence against you given below.

    Therefore, invoking the most Holy name of Our Lord Jesus Christ and his most glorious Mother, ever Virgin Mary; and sitting as a tribunal, with the advice and counsel of the Reverend Masters of Sacred Theology and the Doctors of both laws, our consultants; in this writen opinion we pronounce final judgment on the case pending before us between the Magnificent Carlo Sinceri, Doctor of both laws, and Prosecuting Attorney of this Holy Office, on one side, and you the above-mentioned Galileo Galilei, the culprit here present, examined, tried, and confessed as above, on the other side:

    We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the above-mentioned Galileo, because of the things deduced in the trial and confessed by you as above, have rendered yourself according to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having held and believed a doctine which is false and contrary to the divine and Holy Scripture: that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west, and the earth moves and is not the center of the world, and that one may hold and defend as probable an opinion after it has been declared and defined contrary to Holy Scripture. Consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated by the sacred canons and all particular and general laws against such delinquents. We are willing to absolve you from them provided that first, with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith, in front of us you abjure, curse, and detest the above-mentioned errors and heresies, and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Church, in the manner and form we will prescribe to you.

    Furthermore, so that this serious and pernicious error and transgression of yours does not remain completely unpunished, and so that you will be more cautious in the future and an example for others to abstain from similar crimes, we order that the book Dialogue by Galileo Galilei be prohibited by public edict.

    We condemn you to formal imprisonment in this Holy Office at our pleasure. As a salutary penance we impose on you to recite the seven penitential Psalms once a week for the next three years. And we reserve the authority to moderate, change, or condone wholly or in part the above-mentioned penalties and penances.

    This we say, pronounce, sentence, declare, order, and reserve by this or any other better manner or form that we reasonably can or shall think of.
     
  2. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    教皇保罗二世在1979年组织了一个调查会调查伽里略事件,13年后,1992年11月保罗二世发表了以下看法:

    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~nmcenter/sci-cp/sci-9211.html

    The first is of the epistemological order and concerns biblical hermeneutics. In this regard, two points must again be raised. In the first place, like most of his adversaries, Galileo made no distinction between the scientific approach to natural phenomena and a reflection on nature, of the philosophical order, which that approach generally calls for. That is why he rejected the suggestion made to him to present the Copernican system as a hypothesis, inasmuch as it had not been confirmed by irrefutable proof. Such therefore, was an exigency of the experimental method of which he was the inspired founder.

    Secondly, the geocentric representation of the world was commonly admitted in the culture of the time as fully agreeing with the teaching of the Bible of which certain expressions, taken literally seemed to affirm geocentrism. The problem posed by theologians of that age was, therefore, that of the compatibility between heliocentrism and Scripture.

    Thus the new science, with its methods and the freedom of research which they implied, obliged theologians to examine their own criteria of scriptural interpretation. Most of them did not know how to do so.

    Paradoxically, Galileo, a sincere believer, showed himself to be more perceptive in this regard than the theologians who opposed him. "If Scripture cannot err", he wrote to Benedetto Castelli, "certain of its interpreters and commentators can and do so in many ways".

    The birth of a new way of approaching the study of natural phenomena demands a clarification on the part of all disciplines of knowledge. It obliges them to define more clearly their own field, their approach, their methods, as well as the precise import of their conclusions. In other words, this new way requires each discipline to become more rigorously aware of its own nature

    By virtue of her own mission, the Church has the duty to be attentive to the pastoral consequences of her teaching. Before all else, let it be clear that this teaching must correspond to the truth. But it is a question of knowing how to judge a new scientific datum when it seems to contradict the truths of faith. The pastoral judgement which the Copernican theory required was difficult to make, in so far as geocentrism seemed to be a part of scriptural teaching itself.

    The majority of theologians did not recognize the formal distinction between Sacred Scripture and its interpretation, and this led them unduly to transpose into the realm of the doctrine of the faith a question which in fact pertained to scientific investigation.

    In fact, as Cardinal Poupard has recalled, Robert Bellarmine, who had seen what was truly at stake in the debate personally felt that, in the face of possible scientific proofs that the earth orbited round the sun, one should "interpret with great circumspection" every biblical passage which seems to affirm that the earth is immobile and "say that we do not understand, rather than affirm that what has been demonstrated is false".(4) Before Bellarmine, this same wisdom and same respect for the divine Word guided St Augustine when he wrote: "If it happens that the authority of Sacred Scripture is set in opposition to clear and certain reasoning, this must mean that the person who interprets Scripture does not understand it correctly. It is not the meaning of Scripture which is opposed to the truth but the meaning which he has wanted to give to it. That which is opposed to Scripture is not what is in Scripture but what he has placed there himself, believing that this is what Scripture meant".(5) A century ago, Pope Leo XIII echoed this advice in his Encyclical Providentissimus Deus: "Truth cannot contradict truth and we may be sure that some mistake has been made either in the interpretation of the sacred words, or in the polemical discussion itself".(6)

    From the beginning of the Age of Enlightenment down to our own day, the Galileo case has been a sort of "myth", in which the image fabricated out of the events was quite far removed from reality. In this perspective, the Galileo case was the symbol of the Church's supposed rejection of scientific progress, or of "dogmatic" obscurantism opposed to the free search for truth. This myth has played a considerable cultural role. It has helped to anchor a number of scientists of good faith in the idea that there was an incompatibility between the spirit of science and its rules of research on the one hand and the Christian faith on the other. A tragic mutual incomprehension has been interpreted as the reflection of a fundamental opposition between science and faith. The clarifications furnished by recent historical studies enable us to state that this sad misunderstanding now belongs to the past.

    From the Galileo affair we can learn a lesson which remains valid in relation to similar situations which occur today and which may occur in the future.

    In Galileo's time, to depict the world as lacking an absolute physical reference point was, so to speak, inconceivable. And since the cosmos, as it was then known, was contained within the solar system alone, this reference point could only be situated in the earth or in the sun. Today, after Einstein and within the perspective of contemporary cosmology neither of these two reference points has the importance they once had. This observation, it goes without saying, is not directed against the validity of Galileo's position in the debate; it is only meant to show that often, beyond two partial and contrasting perceptions, there exists a wider perception which includes them and goes beyond both of them.

    Another lesson which we can draw is that the different branches of knowledge call for different methods. Thanks to his intuition as a brilliant physicist and by relying on different arguments, Galileo, who practically invented the experimental method, understood why only the sun could function as the centre of the world, as it was then known, that is to say, as a planetary system. The error of the theologians of the time, when they maintained the centrality of the earth, was to think that our understanding of the physical world's structure was, in some way, imposed by the literal sense of Sacred Scripture. Let us recall the celebrated saying attributed to Baronius "Spiritui Sancto mentem fuisse nos docere quomodo ad coelum eatur, non quomodo coelum gradiatur". In fact, the Bible does not concern itself with the details of the physical world, the understanding of which is the competence of human experience and reasoning. There exist two realms of knowledge, one which has its source in Revelation and one which reason can discover by its own power. To the latter belong especially the experimental sciences and philosophy. The distinction between the two realms of knowledge ought not to be understood as opposition. The two realms are not altogether foreign to each other, they have points of contact. The methodologies proper to each make it possible to bring out different aspects of reality.

    In 2000, Pope John Paul II issued a formal apology for all the mistakes committed by some Catholics in the last 2,000 years of the Catholic Church's history, including the trial of Galileo among others
     
  3. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    日心说与公历 (Gregorian calendar)

    下面提供另一侧面让我们了解天主教会对地心说,进而对科学的态度。Gregorian calendar 是教皇 Pope Gregory XIII 1582年签发,并使用至今。Gregorian calendar即参考了哥白尼的数学方法用于对Julian calendar的改进,Pope Leo X组织的改革Julian calendar的小组即邀请哥白尼参与

    The resulting demand for calendar reform provided an important motive for the reform of astronomy itself. The Catholic Church was interested in the development of science in general and supported the work of astronomers. This is also true about Copernicus whose studies were sponsored by his uncle, the bishop, and whose work gained him recognition even in Vatican circles. During Copernicus' lifetime, Pope Leo X started work on the reform of the calendar. Copernicus was invited to take part in the studies but did not participate at the conference in person. We know from preserved documents that he did submit a paper, but unfortunately, it has not been found so we will never know for sure what Copernicus wrote. There are some indications, however, that he expressed an opinion that the existing models of the universe were inadequate to create a "long term calendar" which would be synchronized with the seasons. The reform that gave the Western world its modern calendar followed the publication of De Revolutionbus by only thirty-nine years. The new calendar, called the Gregorian calendar after Pope Gregory XIII during whose pontificate it was introduced, suppresses a leap year three times every four hundred years.

    Among Catholics, Christoph Clavius (1537–1612) was the leading astronomer in the sixteenth century. A Jesuit himself, he incorporated astronomy into the Jesuit curriculum and was the principal scholar behind the creation of the Gregorian calendar. Like the Wittenberg astronomers, Clavius adopted Copernican mathematical models when he felt them superior, but he believed that Ptolemy's cosmology — both his ordering of the planets and his use of the equant — was correct.
     
  4. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    全文转载这个冗长的判决书,因为看到这份400年前的文献,俺很是惊叹。结合其他的材料,阿Q认为可以安全地得到以下结论:

    1、自始至终,伽利略没有受到任何人身伤害、没有入狱,仅仅是宽松的软禁。尽管他客观上挑战了天主教会的最高权威:主张重新解释圣经,以及在《对话》一书中出卖和贬低他的教皇朋友

    2、宗教法庭的审理过程似乎包含了现代西方司法的很多要素:伽利略有权力进行辩解、法庭方做了扎实的调查、重要结论不是由个人给出,而是专门小组提供意见,最终意见由7位红衣主教签名。中文资料讲有三位拒绝签字,没有得到证实

    3、两次判决都是专注于神学,侧重于要求抛弃、不传播这种“异端”的思想。这里隐含了两个重要信息:
    3.1 对于持有“异端”思想的人,只要放弃,即可免受罚
    3.2 从来没有禁止他继续从事直接导致他持有“异端”思想的活动:科学研究

    4、宗教裁判所仅仅禁止伽利略的《对话》,没有禁止他以前出版的书。虽然同时禁止伽利略以后出版任何书,但显然没有严格执行——在他暮年仍然“走私”出版了被认为他科学上最伟大的著作。在此风波中,一些主张重新解释圣经的神学方面的书被禁,但是被禁的科学相关书,包括《天体运行论》尺度放宽:Pending for correction,并且没有严格执行。同时,书被禁,作者没有受到其他的任何处罚

    5、1632年,《对话》仍然通过了宗教xx机构的审查,尽管此时对伽利略仍然有禁止宣传日心说的禁令。不禁令人联想,假设他没有在《对话》中出卖乌班八世,这场风波是否可以避免?

    6、当时,伽利略与哥白尼都没有完全证明日心说是正确的,教会对科学的态度始终如一:将日心说当成Hypothesis,而不是事实看待。从严格科学意义上讲,这是正确的。1633年审查的重点也在于《对话》是否将日心说当成事实看待

    7、1633年天主教会已经受到了宗教改革的强大压力,对于可能影响到他们权威的日心说,以及重新解释圣经的主张,天主教会这样的处理,很难将他们与“残暴”“专制”等等的词联系起来

    8、对于一个科学家,教会前后17年,牵涉到两任教皇多位红衣主教。伽利略也有机会6次会见乌班八世进行学术讨论,并得到教皇的鼓励“出版一本讨论地心说和日心说的书”。窃以为这侧面反证了天主教会对科学的热诚

    9、鉴于当时的主流世俗学术界仍然是主张地心说,日心说在学术界的推广本来就有阻力。难以判断对伽里略的审判是否对科学发展造成了实质性的负面影响
     
  5. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    保罗二世的道歉让阿Q想到了这些:

    1、对伽利略事件的指责,事实上在拿今天的标准在衡量400年前的天主教会。就算如此,尽管当时的天主教会做出了错误的决定,但是此过程却有诸多值得很多现代政权学习之处

    2、类似的,如果拿这个标准去衡量,400年前,100年前的基督教没有得到广泛传播的国家/政权,会有什么样的结果?或者拿去检验1949年至今的中国政府,对比一下他们如何处理“政治犯”,看看他们怎样审判政治局委员?

    3、换句话讲,在对待科学的态度上,哪个政权做得更好?1633年刚好是徐光启死的时间,偶然发现:明王朝长期执行不准私习天文,严禁民间研制历法政策的结果。明沈德符《万历野获编》所说“国初学天文有历禁,习历者遣戍,造历者殊死

    4、保罗二世提出的几个科学相关的问题,直到今天仍然没有完美的答案

    谁有资格指责当时的天主教会压制科学、迫害科学家?
     
  6. focus on today

    focus on today 资深人士 ID:85601

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    赞一个。

    多少年来,我们喜欢人云亦云,而不愿做独立思考。教育也是鼓励“万众一心”, 我看我侄女在学校受的教育还是在那个模子里面。
     
  7. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    1615年,一个支持日心说的神父Foscarini写了一本书,并主张重新解释圣经。书出版之前,他将书稿寄给红衣主教Bellarmine(就是这个红衣主教在1616年给伽里略发禁止他宣传日心说的禁令)。题外话,这本书出版了,后来被禁,当然这个神父没有受到教会的任何迫害

    Bellarmine给神父Foscarini回了这封信:

    ... As you ask for my opinion, I will give it as briefly as possible because, at the moment I have very little time for writing.

    First, I say it seems to me that your Reverence and Signor Galileo act prudently when you content yourselves with speaking hypothetically and not absolutely, as I have always understood that Copernicus spoke. ... But to want to affirm that the Sun, in very truth, is at the centre of the universe and only rotates on its axis without travelling from east to west, and that the Earth is situated in the third sphere and revolves very swiftly around the Sun, is a very dangerous attitude and one calculated not only to arouse all Scholastic philosophers and theologians but also to injure our holy faith by contradicting the Scriptures...

    Second, I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent forbids the interpretation of the Scriptures in a way contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. Now if your Reverence will read, not merely the Fathers, but modern commentators on Genesis, the Psalms, Ecclesiastes, and Joshua, you will discover that all agree in interpreting them literally as teaching that the Sun is in the heavens and revolves round the Earth with immense speed and that the Earth is very distant from the heavens, at the centre of the universe, and motionless. Consider, then, in your prudence, whether the Church can support that the Scriptures should be interpreted in manner contrary to that of the holy Fathers and of all modern commentators, bath Latin and Greek...

    Third, I say that, if there were a real proof that the Sun is in the centre of the universe, that the Earth is in the third sphere, and that the Sun does not go round the Earth but the Earth round the Sun, then we should have to proceed with great circumspection in explaining passages of Scripture which appear to teach the contrary, and we should rather have to say that we did not understand them than declare an opinion to be false which is proved to be true. But I do not think there is any such proof since none has been shown to me. To demonstrate that the appearances are saved by assuming the sun at the centre and the earth in the heavens is not the same thing as to demonstrate that in fact the sun is in the centre and the earth in the heavens. I believe that the first demonstration may exist. but I have very grave doubts about the second, and in case of doubt one may not abandon the Holy Scriptures as expounded by the holy Fathers...
     
  8. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/letterkepler.html

    与主题关系不大的材料。抄录在于因为阿Q认为它有助于认识两个问题:1、当时的学术气氛是怎样的?2、当时科学界(与宗教无关)对日心说的态度

    意大利科学家写给德国数学家的一封信,1597
    Galileo-Kepler Correspondence, 1597
    [Galileo to Kepler, 1597]

    ....Like you, I accepted the Copernicun position several years ago and discovered from thence the causes of many natural effects which are doubtless inexplicable by the current theories. I have written up many of my reasons and refutations on the subject, but I have not dared until now to bring them into the open, being warned by the fortunes of Copernicus himself, our master, who procured immortal fame among a few but stepped down among the great crowd (for the foolish are numerous), only to be derided and dishonored. I would dare publish my thoughts if there were many like you; but, since there are not, I shall forebear....

    [Kepler to Galileo, 1597]

    ....I could only have wished that you, who have so profound an insight, would choose another way. You advise us, by your personal example, and in discreetly veiled fashion, to retreat before the general ignorance and not to expose ourselves or heedlessly to oppose the violent attacks of the mob of scholars (and in this you follow Plato and Pythagoras, our true perceptors). But after a tremendous task has been begun in our time, first by Copernicus and then by many very learned mathematicians, and when the assertion that the Earth moves can no longer be considered something new, would it not be much better to pull the wagon to its goal by our joint efforts, now that we have got it under way, and gradually, with powerful voices, to shout down the common herd, which really does not weigh the arguments very carefully? Thus perhaps by cleverness we may bring it to a knowledge of the truth. With your arguments you would at the same time help your comrades who endure so many unjust judgments, for they would obtain either comfort from your agreement or protection from your influential position. It is not only your Italians who cannot believe that they move if they do not feel it, but we in Germany also do not by any means endear ourselves with this idea. Yet there are ways by which we protect ourselves against these difficulties....

    Be of good cheer, Galileo, and come out publicly. If I judge correctly, there are only a few of the distinguished mathematicians of Europe who would part company with us, so great is the power of truth. If Italy seems a less favorable place for your publication, and if you look for difficulties there, perhaps Germany will allow us this freedom.

    Source: Giorgio de Santillana, The Crime of Galileo (1955).
     
  9. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    同样目的的更多材料,同时也可以反映伽利略的宗教:伽利略的书信

    Galileo

    I esteem myself happy to have as great an ally as you in my search for truth. ... To refute the latter I have collected many proofs, but I do not publish them, because I am deterred by the fate of our teacher Copernicus who, although he had won immortal fame with a few, was ridiculed and condemned by countless people.
    -- Letter to Johannes Kepler (1596)

    My dear Kepler, what would you say of the learned here, who, replete with the pertinacity of the asp, have steadfastly refused to cast a glance through the telescope? What shall we make of this? Shall we laugh, or shall we cry?
    -- Letter to Johannes Kepler (1610)

    for in the sciences the authority of thousands of opinions is not worth as much as one tiny spark of reason in an individual man. Besides, the modern observations deprive all former writers of any authority, since if they had seen what we see, they would have judged as we judge.
    -- Third letter on sunspots (December 1612) to Mark Wesler (1558 - 1614)

    Philosophy is written in that great book which ever lies before our eyes — I mean the universe — but we cannot understand it if we do not first learn the language and grasp the symbols, in which it is written. This book is written in the mathematical language, and the symbols are triangles, circles and other geometrical figures, without whose help it is impossible to comprehend a single word of it; without which one wanders in vain through a dark labyrinth.
    -- The Assayer (1623), as translated by Thomas Salusbury (1661), p. 178, as quoted in The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science (2003) by Edwin Arthur Burtt, p. 75

    Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.
    -- As quoted in Beginning Algebra (1992) by Margaret L. Lial, Charles David Miller and E. John Hornsby, p. 2

    Letter to Benedetto Castelli (1613)

    "It seems to me that it was well said by Madama Serenissima, and insisted on by your reverence, that the Holy Scripture cannot err, and that the decrees therein contained are absolutely true and inviolable. But I should have in your place added that, though Scripture cannot err, its expounders and interpreters are liable to err in many ways; and one error in particular would be most grave and most frequent, if we always stopped short at the literal signification of the words."

    Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina (1615)

    Nature … is inexorable and immutable; she never transgresses the laws imposed upon her, or cares a whit whether her abstruse reasons and methods of operation are understandable to men. For that reason it appears that nothing physical which sense–experience sets before our eyes, or which necessary demonstrations prove to us, ought to be called in question (much less condemned) upon the testimony of biblical passages which may have some different meaning beneath their words. For the Bible is not chained in every expression to conditions as strict as those which govern all physical effects; nor is God any less excellently revealed in Nature's actions than in the sacred statements of the Bible.


    Letter to Fr. Vincenzo Renieri (c. 1633)

    I was obliged to retract, like a good Catholic, this opinion of mine; and as a punishment my dialogue was prohibited; and after five months being dismissed from Rome, the habitation which with generous pity was assigned to me, was that of the dearest friend I had in Siena, Monsignor the Archbishop Piccolomini, whose most agreeable conversation I enjoyed with such quite and satisfaction of mind, that having there resumed my studies, I discovered and demonstrated a great number on the mechanical conclusions on the resistance of solids … after about five months, the pestilence having ceased, the confinement of that house was changed by His Holiness for the freedom of the country so agreeable to me, whence I returned to the villa of Bellosguardo, and afterwards to Arcetri, where I still breathe salubrious air near my dear native-country Florence. Stay sane.
     
  10. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    这个链接对伽利略事件有比较详细的叙述:http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/galileoaccount.html

    包括伽利略Deposition(宣誓?录口供?书面证词?)的详细记录:
    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/depositions.html

    天主教会内部意见并不同意,在这些链接中明确了,在最后的判决书中,仍然有三个红衣主教支持伽利略,没有在sentence上签字:

    [Signed:]
    F. Cardinal of Ascoli
    B. Cardinal Gessi
    G. Cardinal Bentivoglio
    F. Cardinal Verospi
    Fr. D. Cardinal of Cremona
    M. Cardinal Ginetti
    Fr. Ant. s Cardinal of. S. Onofrio

    [Three judges did not sign the sentence: Francesco Barberini, Caspar Borgia, and Laudivio Zacchia.]
     
  11. CHRIS88

    CHRIS88 基督门徒 ID:68059 管理成员 VIP

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    So whispers the soul of a real scientist.
     
  12. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    当时天主教会根据以下经文认定地球是固定的,太阳围绕着地球转

    历代志上 16:30 全地要在他面前战抖,世界也坚定不得动摇。
    [KJV] Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
    [NIV] Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

    诗 篇
    19:1 诸天述说神的荣耀,穹苍传扬他的手段。
    [KJV] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
    [NIV] The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

    19:4-5 他的量带通遍天下,他的言语传到地极。神在其间为太阳安设帐幕。太阳如同新郎出洞房,又如勇士欢然奔路。
    [KJV] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
    [NIV] Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun, which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion, like a champion rejoicing to run his course

    93:1 耶和华作王。他以威严为衣穿上。耶和华以能力为衣,以能力束腰。世界就坚定,不得动摇。
    [KJV] The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
    [NIV] The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

    96:10 人在列邦中要说,耶和华作王,世界就坚定,不得动摇。他要按公正审判众民。
    [KJV] Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
    [NIV] Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity.

    104:5 将地立在根基上,使地永不动摇。
    [KJV] Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
    [NIV] He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved

    传道书 1:5 日头出来,日头落下,急归所出之地。
    [KJV] The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
    [NIV] The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

    约书亚记 10:13 于是日头停留,月亮止住,直等国民向敌人报仇。这事岂不是写在雅煞珥书上吗?日头在天当中停住,不急速下落,约有一日之久。
    [KJV] And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
    [NIV] So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

    以赛亚书 40:22 神坐在地球大圈之上,地上的居民好像蝗虫。他铺张穹苍如幔子,展开诸天如可住的帐棚。
    [KJV] It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
    [NIV] He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
     
  13. karma111

    karma111 初级会员 ID:74258 VIP

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    Let's learn from history and do NOT repeat it.

    P.S It's unwise to compare the living standard of developing countries with developed countries and draw conclusion from it. It's like comparing a rich guy and a poor guy. and say everything the rich guy does is correct. And everything the poor guy does is wrong.


    The Thirty Years' War (1618–1648)
    The Thirty Years' War (1618–1648) was a series of wars principally fought in Central Europe, involving most of the countries of Europe.[12] It was one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history, and one of the longest continuous wars in modern history.

    The origins of the conflict and goals of the participants were complex and no single cause can accurately be described as the main reason for the fighting. Initially, it was fought largely as a religious war between Protestants and Catholics in the Holy Roman Empire, although disputes over internal politics and the balance of power within the Empire played a significant part. Gradually, it developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers of the time.[13] In this general phase the war became less specifically religious and more a continuation of the Bourbon–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence, leading in turn to further warfare between France and the Habsburg powers.[14]

    A major consequence of the Thirty Years' War was the devastation of entire regions, denuded by the foraging armies (bellum se ipsum alet). Famine and disease significantly decreased the population of the German states, Bohemia, the Low Countries, and Italy; most of the combatant powers bankrupted. While the regiments within each army were not strictly mercenary, in that they were not units for hire that changed sides from battle to battle, some individual soldiers that made up the regiments were mercenaries. The problem of discipline was made more difficult by the ad hoc nature of 17th-century military financing; armies were expected to be largely self-funding, by means of loot taken or tribute extorted from the settlements where they operated. This encouraged a form of lawlessness that imposed severe hardship on inhabitants of the occupied territory.

    The Thirty Years' War was ended with the treaties of Osnabrück and Münster, part of the wider Peace of Westphalia.[15] Some of the quarrels that provoked the war went unresolved for a much longer time.


    Belligerents

    Protestant States and Allies vs Roman Catholic States and Allies


    Casualties and losses
    8,000,000 including civilian casualties[11](8 millions)

    (In 1600, Europe's population reached an estimated 80 million )



    Casualties and disease
    A peasant begs for mercy in front of a burning farm.
    So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25% to 40%.[53] Some regions were affected much more than others.[54] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[55] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[56] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[57] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[58][59] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[60] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[61] The war caused serious dislocations to both the economies and populations of central Europe, but may have done no more than seriously exacerbate changes that had begun earlier.[62][63]

    Pestilence of several kinds raged among combatants and civilians in Germany and surrounding lands from 1618 to 1648. Many features of the war spread disease. These included troop movements, the influx of soldiers from foreign countries, and the shifting locations of battle fronts. In addition, the displacement of civilian populations and the overcrowding of refugees into cities led to both disease and famine. Information about numerous epidemics is generally found in local chronicles, such as parish registers and tax records, that are often incomplete and may be exaggerated. The chronicles do show that epidemic disease was not a condition exclusive to war time, but was present in many parts of Germany for several decades prior to 1618.[64]

    When the Danish and Imperial armies clashed in Saxony and Thuringia during 1625 and 1626, disease and infection in local communities increased. Local chronicles repeatedly referred to "head disease", "Hungarian disease", and a "spotted" disease identified as typhus. After the Mantuan War, between France and the Habsburgs in Italy, the northern half of the Italian peninsula was in the throes of a bubonic plague epidemic (see Italian Plague of 1629–1631). During the unsuccessful siege of Nuremberg, in 1632, civilians and soldiers in both the Swedish and Imperial armies succumbed to typhus and scurvy. Two years later, as the Imperial army pursued the defeated Swedes into southwest Germany, deaths from epidemics were high along the Rhine River. Bubonic plague continued to be a factor in the war. Beginning in 1634, Dresden, Munich, and smaller German communities such as Oberammergau recorded large numbers of plague casualties. In the last decades of the war, both typhus and dysentery had become endemic in Germany.





    From: Wikipedia
     
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  14. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    您这段比较的话不知是不是在指前面我举的两个例子?觉得咱们实在不是在说同样的事情啊!前面俺的两处比较分别是:拿同样年代的欧洲跟明朝简单做一个比较,看看谁更加尊重科学?1600的欧洲不是号称毫无希望,科学被宗教严重压制吗?

    第二处比较是拿400年前天主教会对待伽利略的过程,与1949年以后的中共政权比较,这不过分吧?当然这种简单比较本身不足以得出任何结论。只是好玩

    关于三十年战争,看了Wiki的文章,窃以为据此也不足以评判宗教在里面所起作用大小。Wiki本身也没有进行评价。中宣部、教育部之类的尚且没有将它当成天主教会的罪恶,所以阿Q就跳过了 :eek:
     
  15. qwerty0

    qwerty0 阿Q先生 ID:106531 VIP

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    找到这些经文,被今天的人理解为地动说证据.有趣的是以 赛 亚 书 40:22在400年前被理解为地球是宇宙中心的证明,今天却相反

    以 赛 亚 书 40:22 神 坐 在 地 球 大 圈 之 上 , 地 上 的 居 民 好 像 蝗 虫 。 他 铺 张 穹 苍 如 幔 子 , 展 开 诸 天 如 可 住 的 帐 棚 。
    NIV:He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth
    KJB:It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth

    “大圈”一词在希伯来原文中(希伯来文: chûgh {H:2329}), 是指一个立体的球面(spherical)而不是一个平面的弧形

    约伯记 26:7-8 神将北极铺在空中,将大地悬在虚空。将水包在密云中,云却不破裂
    NIV:He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
    KJB:He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing

    传道书 1:6 风往南刮,又向北转,不住地旋转,而且返回转行原道
    NIV:The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course
    KJB:The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits

    箴 言 8:27 他立高天,我在那里。他在渊面的周围,划出圆圈
    NIV:I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep
    KJB:When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth
    ESV:When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep

    约伯记 26:10 在水面的周围划出界限,直到光明黑暗的交界
    NIV:He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.

    约伯记 38:12-14 你自生以来,曾命定晨光,使清晨的日光知道本位。叫这光普照地的四极,将恶人从其中驱逐出来吗?因这光,地面改变如泥上印印,万物出现如衣服一样 。
    NIV:The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment

    说明:“改变”在原文为旋转的意思,就是说,地面旋转,如泥上印印。这是指美索不达米亚古代印字的泥筒说的;泥筒制讫,在未经烘干以前,用一个细轴穿过筒之两端,作为轴心;然后执轴之两端,将泥筒旋转于字模之上,于是便将模上的字印在泥筒上面。圣经以此背景说明:(一)地球是圆的;(二)是在一个轴上转动的


    http://www.malaccagospelhall.org.my/book/book12.htm
     

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