精华 改为“无题”比较好

plum

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最初由 20厘米先生 发布
白人, 休想用宗教控制中国, 控制黄种人的主体! [/QU
 

roaring mouse

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圣经的难以理解处往往正是其为神之话语最佳证据。
the latest from the Judas, do u believe it? it is not in the bible; and can you tell me why it is not included in the bible?

For 2,000 years Judas has been reviled for betraying Jesus. Now a newly translated ancient document seeks to tell his side of the story.

The "Gospel of Judas" tells a far different tale from the four gospels in the New Testament. It portrays Judas as a favored disciple who was given special knowledge by Jesus -- and who turned him in at Jesus' request.

"You will be cursed by the other generations -- and you will come to rule over them," Jesus tells Judas in the document made public Thursday.

The text, one of several ancient documents found in the Egyptian desert in 1970, was preserved and translated by a team of scholars. It was made public in an English translation by the National Geographic Society.

Religious and lay readers alike will debate the meaning and truth of the manuscript.

But it does show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity, said Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.

The text, in the Coptic language, was dated to about the year 300 and is a copy of an earlier Greek version.

A "Gospel of Judas" was first mentioned around A.D. 180 by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as heresy because it differed from mainstream Christianity. The actual text had been thought lost until this discovery.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, said, "The people who loved, circulated and wrote down these gospels did not think they were heretics."

Added Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago: "Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient text begin."

Senior expressed doubt that the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but he allowed that opinions are likely to vary.

Craig Evans, a professor at Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, Canada, said New Testament explanations for Judas' betrayal range from money to the influence of Satan.

"Perhaps more now can be said," he commented. The document "implies that Judas only did what Jesus wanted him to do."

Christianity in the ancient world was much more diverse than it is now, with a number of gospels circulating in addition to the four that were finally collected into the New Testament, noted Bart Ehrman, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina.

Eventually, one point of view prevailed and the others were declared heresy, he said, including the Gnostics who believed that salvation depended on secret knowledge that Jesus imparted, particularly to Judas.

In Cairo, the editor of the Coptic weekly "Watani," Youssef Sidhom, did not want to make an immediate judgment on the manuscript.

"However," he said, "this will not greatly affect the central belief that considers Judas as a traitor, but there is an old school of thought that says one should not persecute Judas because his role was to complete the prophecies. It seems that the new manuscript will support this point of view -- that Judas' role was pivotal to completing the prophecies."

The newly translated document's text begins: "The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot."

In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, "You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."

This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. "Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."

The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection.

National Geographic said the author believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus' teachings. The author of the text is not named in the writings.

Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it. More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled.

The material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo, Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars said Ted Waitt of the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the restoration.

In addition to radio carbon dating, the manuscript was also authenticated through ink analysis, multispectral imaging, content and linguistic style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.
 

tipedge

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最初由 20厘米先生 发布

生命, 最可贵之处, 就在于生命只有一次. JESUS仗着自己比别人生命多, 就故意受虐, 让自己惨不忍睹的样子被众人看见, 让人产生怜悯和震撼, 这样的手段让别人信服他, 我非常不欣赏.




这句话要顶顶的。哈哈,明知道自己死不了,还要当着别人的面,死一趟,这个有点矫情了。

看来20cm也是对这个宗教颇多看法,大不了吐啊吐得就习惯了。
 

roaring mouse

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中国或许没有宗教战争,但从来不缺少战争。而且这些战争从来就是没有底线的“超限战”。

旧教和新教有冲突,教徒之间有迫害。但总的来说有个底线。大家也有逐步让冲突变得“文明”些的愿望和可能。甚至可以有战争法相互约束。

战争并不是基督教。战争是罪人的行为。可惜基督教徒们也不过是蒙恩的罪人而已。基督教徒也时时犯罪。

如果和非基督徒比,一个真正的基督徒知罪所以也比较能认罪。有被神饶恕的平安所以也比较能饶恕别人。
what is a true christian? how about G.W. Bush? he deeply believes in god and he started the war and did not think he is wrong even many chritians or non-christians think he is wrong. the god's teaching is let them hit your right face if they hit first on the left. no revenge. does it ever happen? Do they forgive the 911 hijacker? no. why saddam's sons and grandson were killed not forgiven?
why do they have death punishment in the US and China? Canada is laudalbe in this respect.
you have your own right to believe god. But do not try to be a saint over us.
 

农夫

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最初由 roaring mouse 发布

the latest from the Judas, do u believe it? it is not in the bible; and can you tell me why it is not included in the bible?

For 2,000 years Judas has been reviled for betraying Jesus. Now a newly translated ancient document seeks to tell his side of the story.

The "Gospel of Judas" tells a far different tale from the four gospels in the New Testament. It portrays Judas as a favored disciple who was given special knowledge by Jesus -- and who turned him in at Jesus' request.

"You will be cursed by the other generations -- and you will come to rule over them," Jesus tells Judas in the document made public Thursday.

The text, one of several ancient documents found in the Egyptian desert in 1970, was preserved and translated by a team of scholars. It was made public in an English translation by the National Geographic Society.

Religious and lay readers alike will debate the meaning and truth of the manuscript.

But it does show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity, said Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.

The text, in the Coptic language, was dated to about the year 300 and is a copy of an earlier Greek version.

A "Gospel of Judas" was first mentioned around A.D. 180 by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as heresy because it differed from mainstream Christianity. The actual text had been thought lost until this discovery.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, said, "The people who loved, circulated and wrote down these gospels did not think they were heretics."

Added Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago: "Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient text begin."

Senior expressed doubt that the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but he allowed that opinions are likely to vary.

Craig Evans, a professor at Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, Canada, said New Testament explanations for Judas' betrayal range from money to the influence of Satan.

"Perhaps more now can be said," he commented. The document "implies that Judas only did what Jesus wanted him to do."

Christianity in the ancient world was much more diverse than it is now, with a number of gospels circulating in addition to the four that were finally collected into the New Testament, noted Bart Ehrman, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina.

Eventually, one point of view prevailed and the others were declared heresy, he said, including the Gnostics who believed that salvation depended on secret knowledge that Jesus imparted, particularly to Judas.

In Cairo, the editor of the Coptic weekly "Watani," Youssef Sidhom, did not want to make an immediate judgment on the manuscript.

"However," he said, "this will not greatly affect the central belief that considers Judas as a traitor, but there is an old school of thought that says one should not persecute Judas because his role was to complete the prophecies. It seems that the new manuscript will support this point of view -- that Judas' role was pivotal to completing the prophecies."

The newly translated document's text begins: "The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot."

In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, "You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."

This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. "Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."

The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection.

National Geographic said the author believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus' teachings. The author of the text is not named in the writings.

Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it. More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled.

The material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo, Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars said Ted Waitt of the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the restoration.

In addition to radio carbon dating, the manuscript was also authenticated through ink analysis, multispectral imaging, content and linguistic style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.

What's your point?
 

农夫

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20先生说了许多不信的。请问你信什么?是佛是道还是无神论?

你不信的最大理由似乎是不喜欢,可惜很多时候真理并不是要讨人喜欢的。真理之所以为真理,是因为它是真理的缘故。与别人喜欢不喜欢无关。正象上帝回答摩西时所说的:我是我。

基督就是生命,道路,真理。信,你就找到了永生的道路,就得救。不信,是你自己的选择,好象怪不得别人吧?
 

农夫

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最初由 roaring mouse 发布

what is a true christian? how about G.W. Bush? he deeply believes in god and he started the war and did not think he is wrong even many chritians or non-christians think he is wrong. the god's teaching is let them hit your right face if they hit first on the left. no revenge. does it ever happen? Do they forgive the 911 hijacker? no. why saddam's sons and grandson were killed not forgiven?
why do they have death punishment in the US and China? Canada is laudalbe in this respect.
you have your own right to believe god. But do not try to be a saint over us.

Who is true Chiritian? This is a question only Jesus himself can answer. No one else can judge. Jesus once said, "Don't judge others, lest you be judged".
 

Marvin

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基督就是生命,道路,真理。信,你就找到了永生的道路,就得救。不信,是你自己的选择,好象怪不得别人吧?
为什么要怪别人?难道不信基督就是错的?就没救了?肯定要堕落?


我看大家都别争了,什么时候找耶稣和佛祖两个出来打一架,谁赢了谁说了算 :D
 

tipedge

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错了,佛祖不爱打架。还是让耶和华与安拉打吧。两个已经打了1000多年了。
 

农夫

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最初由 roaring mouse 发布
最初由 农民工 发布


神爱世人,甚至在人类罪恶深重的时候,让他的独生子卑微地在马槽降世为人,并以最痛苦最屈辱的方式被钉时在十字架上。为的是拯救世人。



are u kidding? that is the most absurd thing in bible; born by a woman without a husband or without having sex? that woman must be smart at that time to say her child is a god's son; otherwise she would be put to death; now you believe this


假定她是撒谎好了。但这个谎言不仅不能保护她,反而又有可能给她找来杀身之货:在当时的犹太人社会,自称是神的儿子固然是渎神的大罪,比如耶稣就是被以此罪名处死的。自称是神子的母亲,不一样是杀身之祸?

the story of Judas who betrayed Jesus, u must believe this; this morning a radio report said Judas is Jesus' friend; he helped him to get out his carnal imprisonment; without Judas, how can u say Jesus sacrified for u? laughing

从已知的信息看,该经文证实正是犹大出卖耶稣。至于他出卖耶稣的原因,我倒是倾向认为新约四福音中并没有提到太多。
 

农夫

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最初由 tipedge 发布
错了,佛祖不爱打架。还是让耶和华与安拉打吧。两个已经打了1000多年了。

佛祖并没有自称是神,是后人将他神化了。李耳并没有自称是神,也是后人把他神化了。

把不是神的人神化,至少也是不尊重别人的愿望?

我对基督教和伊斯兰的冲突的历史了解并不多,但正象我前面提到的,这些冲突与战争,是人的罪性和罪行的一部分。中国并没有真正意义上的宗教,但历史上战争并不少。而且循环往复,无止无休。人类永久和平的希望,其实是近代才有的。而这,正得益于基督教在世界范围类的广泛传播。

试问现代自由,平等,人权的价值,现代民主的制度,以及现代科技的体系,那一样是在非基督教文化中孕育产生并发扬光大的?
 

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你说的对,他们都不是神,你的神是神吗?
先打赢安拉再说吧。否则还是个小丑。
 

农夫

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最初由 tipedge 发布
你说的对,他们都不是神,你的神是神吗?
先打赢安拉再说吧。否则还是个小丑。

不是我的神是神,是神是神。

把人说成神,是渎神。把神说成不是神,也是渎神。

幸运的是,神爱世人。耶稣在被处死时说“父啊,赦免他们,因为 他们所作的,他们不晓得。”
 

wushuren

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基督就是生命,道路,真理。信,你就找到了永生的道路,就得救。不信,是你自己的选择,好象怪不得别人吧?

如果我是一位牧师,我会这样讲,耶稣说了他是道路,是真理,是生命中的光,是无处不在的。耶稣也说了他不认识有些人,虽然他们是教徒,虽然他们以主的名义传教,而且说他们是作恶的人,让他们离开。具体的请参看圣经。

从中的推论是,耶稣让人们追求的是真理,道路和生命的光,而不是拥有一个教徒的名分,上帝不会遗弃任何一个符合标准的人,即使他不是教徒。不凭借真理,道路和生命的光,即使天天念叨耶稣的名字也没用,只有道路真理和生命的光,才能把人引到父那里去,得永生和得救。
 

农夫

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试问现代自由,平等,人权的价值,现代民主的制度,以及现代科技的体系,那一样是在非基督教文化中孕育产生并发扬光大的?


而自由,平等,博爱和德赛二先生不正是中国从五四以降,无数仁人之士的梦想吗?
 
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